Curse

Kuma · Mar 07, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Well I for one liked the guide, it offers some diferent perspective and I'm allways open to trying some variations on my builds. Usually against smites I'll just use SV + AtB + AEcho + SS + SS + Desecrate (It usually ends fast, the only problem is that I must time it right or I risk having to wait till I have enough energy for the second SS).

Kuma

Cherno · Mar 07, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Nice guide. I do the same. The only thing I really do differently is cast SV on the monk as he goes into battle against the Graspings. At least in my thinking that lowers even more the chance of them building up the adreneline and energy.

I find bonnetti's to be my biggest stumbling block when trying to take out smites however. It took me a while to figure out why sometimes my SS(es) would just decimate the smite group and other times seem hardly effective at all.

sno · Mar 07, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherno

Nice guide. I do the same. The only thing I really do differently is cast SV on the monk as he goes into battle against the Graspings. At least in my thinking that lowers even more the chance of them building up the adreneline and energy.

Keep in mind the only reason you're using SV on the monk is to avoid skull crack. Skull crack takes 10 strikes of adrenaline as it is, so waiting until they're all grouped up on the monk allows SV to work for a longer period, while still removing that first bit of adrenaline they gained while aggroing.

Quote:

I find bonnetti's to be my biggest stumbling block when trying to take out smites however. It took me a while to figure out why sometimes my SS(es) would just decimate the smite group and other times seem hardly effective at all.

This all comes down to experience and observation. When you're SVing the monk, you'll have focus on him, and can watch his skill pattern. If he's using bonettis, Just stop casting, and use the time SV is recharging to yell at him, and tell him not to use bonettis. By the time he gets the idea, and realizes why he shouldn't do that, you'll be all charged up and ready for another go. Theres no sense wasting your energy bar if you aren't going to be killing anything.

Cherno · Mar 07, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Thanks for the feedback sno. I guess the reason I do it is to help against "Fear Me" as well. While a monk worth his salt may not need it, since fear me takes so little adrenaline to build up, it seems to help a bit while they are pulling the aggro.

So that when the first time they attack they are losing the adrenaline immediately as well as beginning the energy dump.

I have done it both ways and doesn't seem to matter too much. I really only SS in UW with my guildies and they have told me that it helps a little. Maybe too little to make a difference.

sno · Mar 07, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherno

Thanks for the feedback sno. I guess the reason I do it is to help against "Fear Me" as well. While a monk worth his salt may not need it, since fear me takes so little adrenaline to build up, it seems to help a bit while they are pulling the aggro.

So that when the first time they attack they are losing the adrenaline immediately as well as beginning the energy dump.

I have done it both ways and doesn't seem to matter too much. I really only SS in UW with my guildies and they have told me that it helps a little. Maybe too little to make a difference.

Also something you may not have thought of: You shouldn't be close enough to the monk to SV him until he has full aggro (nothing is moving.) Standing that close will sometimes cause the graspings to turn on you, forcing you to run. It's good practice (especially vs graspings) to be well out of the aggro of anything until the monk has a firm grip on everyone.

Cherno · Mar 07, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Very true. The way I basically do it is for instance, before taking the Lost Soul's Quest, the monk is pretty close to me past the top of the stairs. I hit the quest, then as the grasps start I hit him then move way back to the safe location.

Since the Graspings are easy to see it isn't a problem to hit him and when he moves in and still be completely out of enemy agro. Have never had a problem so far pulling the aggro away from the tank this way.

Farrell-Zander · Mar 18, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

I got a small question about the +27 Energy Item! Why not take the one req Blood Magic? You've got more Blood Magic Attributes... http://www.guildwiki.org/wiki/Brandon_Harlin

sno · Mar 18, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farrell-Zander

I got a small question about the +27 Energy Item! Why not take the one req Blood Magic? You've got more Blood Magic Attributes... http://www.guildwiki.org/wiki/Brandon_Harlin

I never run with blood magic, theres no sense in it... You should be running more than 9 Soul reaping, so taking the SR collectors +27 shouldn't be a problem. Theres NO reason to take 9 blood though, not for 2man runs.

Farrell-Zander · Mar 18, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

I've got 6 Blood Magic for Awaken the Blood (very usefull) and Blood Ritual (needed). I only got 4 Soul Reaping...

cerb · Mar 18, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farrell-Zander

I've got 6 Blood Magic for Awaken the Blood (very usefull) and Blood Ritual (needed). I only got 4 Soul Reaping...

I'd definately suggest spending more points in SR, and use a Sup rune.

I get 11 energy for each kill, and you get 4, I don't have to ask my monk to wait after each group because I'm out of energy. Plus, if you do something like the spider run then good luck with the energy, you're going to be out so fast.

Edit: Blood Ritual isn't needed at all. If most monks knew how the game works rather than just using a build they found on the net then you wouldn't need to take BR at all. They will often take Watchful Spirit or Essence Bond rather than Blessed Signet, and how many times have I mentionned that: You cannot have more than 10 pips of health regeneration!

For God's sake, let's do a quick analysis of the effectiveness of Watchful Spirit/Essence Bond vs Blessed Signet (which means BR isn't needed), hoping some monks read that: If you spend 13 points in Healing Prayers (+4 from Mending and +8 from Breeze), you get 9 pips of regen against aatxes (Bleeding = 12-3=9), 5 pips against Dryders (12-7=5) and 10 pips against Smites/Coldfires (12-0=12,max is 10). If you take Watchful Spirit, you'll have one more pip of regen against aatxess (14-3=11, max is 10), 2 more against dryders (14-7=7) and 2 more wasted pips against smites and coldfires (14-0=14, max is 10). It might look good theorically.

However, the thing is that the monks will use Bonetti's Defense, therefore the effectiveness of the additional pip of regen you get against aatxes isn't even worth considering. Against smites, it's a total waste. It seems good against dryders, but you can deal with groups of 3 fine if you spent 13 points in Healing Prayers), and you can do Ice King just fine too (4 groups of 6 dryders).

Some monks might spend 9 points in Healing Prayers and take Watchful Spirit. Then, you would get the same effect as if you had spent 13 points in Healing Prayers. However, see it this way: 4 more points in Healing Prayers (from 6 to 10 base), or one waste of skill slot for both the monk and the necro (forces nec to take BR).

As for Essence Bond, that's just plain stupid, Balt's and Bonetti's is more than enough.

Think about it, and if it makes sense to you, explain it to your monk and have him bring Blessed Signet.

Dahman · Mar 19, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

This thread got silly, you talking about seconds and energy managment which would be understandable if it was PvP when things like that really matters.
I don't want to be an ignorant but spending points on soul reaping is a waste simplly because when you use ss monsters tend to die at the same time (when one is left the whole energy of Tyria will not speed things up). I never had a problem with it If I really need some extra ene I change set to a cane +5.

I use quite common build with atb, de, br and power drain. never had a problem with timing. I cast atb and echo while my fellow monk aggro a group of at least 15+. When he's ready I'm already ready. And yes I do echo sv, I'm a noob, lamer, call me whatever cuz it takes me like what 30 sec to kill smites. I want to see a build that does it in 15 secs that's the spirit!

BR it's a thing that speeds up the run and everybody welcomes it.

What I wanna know is how you handle two dying nightmares at a time when many PUG monks thinks is totally your job to shut them down.

Talking bout non english pug monks, there are much better than some experts there. Farmed with them few times and these guys don't need to speak much to do they work perfectly.

Anyway I just add that I admire everybody who contributes by presenting their builds and explaining how to use them as many of the people poasting inthis tread. You all rocks!

sno · Mar 19, 2006, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahman

This thread got silly, you talking about seconds and energy managment which would be understandable if it was PvP when things like that really matters.
I don't want to be an ignorant but spending points on soul reaping is a waste simplly because when you use ss monsters tend to die at the same time (when one is left the whole energy of Tyria will not speed things up). I never had a problem with it If I really need some extra ene I change set to a cane +5.

I use quite common build with atb, de, br and power drain. never had a problem with timing. I cast atb and echo while my fellow monk aggro a group of at least 15+. When he's ready I'm already ready. And yes I do echo sv, I'm a noob, lamer, call me whatever cuz it takes me like what 30 sec to kill smites. I want to see a build that does it in 15 secs that's the spirit!

BR it's a thing that speeds up the run and everybody welcomes it.

What I wanna know is how you handle two dying nightmares at a time when many PUG monks thinks is totally your job to shut them down.

Talking bout non english pug monks, there are much better than some experts there. Farmed with them few times and these guys don't need to speak much to do they work perfectly.

Anyway I just add that I admire everybody who contributes by presenting their builds and explaining how to use them as many of the people poasting inthis tread. You all rocks!

Your entire post leads me to believe that you don't care a bit how fast you go. This thread was designed to create the most efficient 2man farming method possible, which is why it was presented as it was. As you said "This thread got silly, you talking about seconds and energy managment which would be understandable if it was PvP when things like that really matters. " Why would things like that not matter when farming? Sure if you're going with a terrible PuG (or even a decent pug for matter) then it won't effect you, but if you're going with a fast monk then things like seconds and e.management are everything. Believe it or not, there are those of us who try to excel in every aspect of GW, not just PVP.

About SR not being necessary, the whole point of SR is to be able to move on to future groups quickly. Yes, the idea is to drain your entire bar killing a single group, and then being able to instantly (without waiting at all) move on and kill the next group.

Blood Ritual: This skill is "needed" as you put it, only when you're running with bad monks. Once you've been doing this awhile (as long as you're good) you should know a few good monks, and PuG's won't be an issue. The problem with this is that most people simply don't care. They're perfectly happy picking from an endless sea of terrible monks, hense the reason HAVING a monk of your own is so much easier.

I've seen your kind of mentality in a very large percentage of SS necros, they pulled the build off the internet, and since it works well enough as it is, they just go along with it, mindlessly farming up ectos and rares. For some of us, UW is about more than simply ecto-scavenging. Being able to go quickly isn't good just because it helps us farm more in a given time, but because it adds a challenge. People say all the time that PVE doesn't offer a challenge, but that's because they don't MAKE it a challenge.

This game (and any game) is all what you make it.

Dahman · Mar 19, 2006, 10:15 AM // 10:15

You right, Sno. And thank you very much for classifing me to that group. UW is the only place where I can acctually have fun playing and get challanged. I don't care about freaking ectos or shard in that matter cause the drops became so rare (like 2 ectos per run) that I would have to spend round 2 months farming to buy that money sink ugly necro armor.
I do run different builds cause I like experimenting (not only with a necro). I didn't write that post to offend anybody for efforts of being the best but to calm down all the bragging.
I would be pleased if you guys, Sno or Undead Preacher share with / PM me the ultimate speed builds and tactics for the monk and necro team if it's not a secret and I promise I won't shame you.

Rogier · Mar 19, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

thanks a lot a guildie of mine wanted to come along with me this has helped him soo much, Gj!

sno · Mar 19, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahman

You right, Sno. And thank you very much for classifing me to that group. UW is the only place where I can acctually have fun playing and get challanged. I don't care about freaking ectos or shard in that matter cause the drops became so rare (like 2 ectos per run) that I would have to spend round 2 months farming to buy that money sink ugly necro armor.
I do run different builds cause I like experimenting (not only with a necro). I didn't write that post to offend anybody for efforts of being the best but to calm down all the bragging.
I would be pleased if you guys, Sno or Undead Preacher share with / PM me the ultimate speed builds and tactics for the monk and necro team if it's not a secret and I promise I won't shame you.

First off, Undead Preacher's build is quite similar to yours, in the sense that it's insanely slow. The skills/strategy posted in the first post of this guide are in my opinion the best (nearly, there are minor things I would change, some that I've noted in prior posts) available for an SS necro (in UW), and the monk skills and attributes are explained in detail here in the Underworld section. If you would like to be taught first hand how to excel in either of these, that is exactly what my academy is designed for.

Nitradamus · Mar 22, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I don't have a lot of money, and I was wondering if there is something cheaper that I can use in stead of Villnar's Glove...?

sno · Mar 22, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitradamus

I don't have a lot of money, and I was wondering if there is something cheaper that I can use in stead of Villnar's Glove...?

Use the Collectors Curses Icon.

Nitradamus · Mar 22, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Liek omg ty very much Mr. Sno!

lord_shar · Mar 23, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

I've been experimenting with both Preacher's and Cerb's listed SS/SV builds. One kills in <= 15-20 seconds, the other in 25-30 seconds. However, I seem to be always stuck waiting for Arcane Echo to recharge regardless of SS/SV techique used, which is usually 50 seconds (20 seconds duration, 30 seconds recharge). Is it my imagination, or is arcane echo's ~50-second recharge time the actual limiting factor for both build's actual kill rates?

Just my observations... nothing more...

ArcticJast · Mar 23, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

I've been experimenting with both Preacher's and Cerb's listed SS/SV builds. One kills in <= 15-20 seconds, the other in 25-30 seconds. However, I seem to be always stuck waiting for Arcane Echo to recharge regardless of SS/SV techique used, which is usually 50 seconds (20 seconds duration, 30 seconds recharge). Is it my imagination, or is arcane echo's ~50-second recharge time the actual limiting factor for both build's actual kill rates?

Just my observations... nothing more...

It is if you let it be, then yes. A good necro should never keep the monk waiting, with a bit of practice you can make do without Arcane Echo, if i remember correctly SS will recharge about 1/2 way through your casting cycle and as long as you have SV on you should be ok. It's all down to practice though, give it a try next time you're with a fast monk, I'm sure they'll apprectiate not having to wait around.